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POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here. (Read 35857 times)
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #30 - 01/02/13 at 13:30:17
 
No problem BlueSkies. I didn't take your post that way. High Tryptase is rarely questioned. Mast Cell Disease is so poorly understood that you Dr may well believe what you wrote. Just know that there are exception. The Dr that first tested my Tryptase really didn't want to because I didn't have a skin problem. There are exceptions!

I hope what I share helps. It can be so confusing trying to understand what is what.  : )

Gail
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #31 - 01/02/13 at 14:17:01
 
MGC wrote on 01/02/13 at 11:38:12:
I took Pepcid and Claritin until just recently. Since my Histamine isn't high, I am assuming that is the reason I could not take the Z&Z combo that is more common. But I obviously needed something for awhile.

Gail



That would not be the reason that you weren't advised to take Zantac and Zyrtec. Tryptase and histamine levels have nothing to do with taking histamine blockers. It is the symptoms that dictate it. Those with low and normal levels take this combo as well. In your case, Gail, your doctor must have other reasons.
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #32 - 01/02/13 at 14:32:16
 
: ) Deborah. Honestly, my Dr had nothing to do with the decision. I did what I thought best, based upon my own reactions.

Gail

Revised: Deborah, why would one take antihistamines other than for high Histamine levels? Inquiring minds want to know.  : )
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #33 - 01/02/13 at 15:12:52
 
I am happy to answer your question, Gail. Those of us with MCAS or Idiopathic Anaphylaxis, for example, usually have completely normal histamine/tryptase levels. Yet, we can be extremely ill, shocking, and even be debillitated and unable to barely walk. That describes me before I was diagnosed and put on meds.

Those who have Masto either have mutated mast cells or way too many mast cells. Those with MCAS or IA react like the Masto people, but our mast cells are normal in shape and number. They just seem to be way too sensitive for some unknown reason and thus we shock and are just as ill as Masto people. The docs test us and all of our levels are normal. Yet we are oh so sick with Masto symptoms. So, the docs (I am referring to the main Masto researchers) put us on the same meds that they put the Masto people on. Everyone reacts to a different combination of meds best, because what would the fun in it be if it was easy? Wink So, they generally start all of us with some combination of Zantac, Zyrtec, and/or Allegra, and they then start tinkering by adding others such as Singulair, Gastrocrom, Hydroxyzine, etc. The doctors use their own knowledge to design a combo that works best for their individual patient since we all respond differently to the various meds.

Some people respond better to Zantac, while others do better with Pepcid. Some use both Allegra and Zyrtec and others use just one of those. Some use high doses of Hydroxyzine and others use tiny doses. It all depends upon finding the right combo with the help of the doctor. All of these are based on the symptoms and the responses, however, not the tryptase levels since we IA or MCAS patients have great normallevels....we are just really sick without those meds, though.

I hope this helps explain it a bit.
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #34 - 01/02/13 at 15:31:59
 
Deborah, I have been reading your Forum for some time, even back to Lefora, and so I am aware of the differences... Masto, IA, MCAS, etc. What I did not realize is that someone would take, or even be able  to take, lots of antihistamines without having elevated Histamine. Intersting! But what do the Antihistamines do if there is no/little Histamine?

Thanks for the explanation.

Gail
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #35 - 01/02/13 at 15:53:28
 
It took me a while to wrap my head around this... but there is no direct relationship between tryptase and histamine.

Some people with SM have few symptoms.  Some don't even need to take medications on a daily basis.  On the other hand, we've seen plenty of people on this forum with "normal" tryptase suffering from disabling symptoms.  I was one of them.  So was Deb.  I don't know if my histamine level is "normal" or not.  I don't think it really matters.  It wouldn't change my diagnosis or treatment plan.

A high tryptase level tells a good doctor that s/he should check your bone marrow for mastocytosis... it's not a guarantee that anything abnormal will turn up.  The opposite is also true.  You could test negative for every indicator it's possible to test for... histamine, prostaglandins, tryptase, etc... and still have a mast cell disorder.  Historically, that's how people got a diagnosis of IA... because they were going into anaphylaxis, but no lab tests could explain why.  Antihistamines still work though.  That's an important criteria for figuring out if you have a mast cell disorder or not.

One last point to consider... mast cells can partially degranulate.  They don't always release everything at once.  That's why you might have a normal tryptase level, but an abnormal histamine level... or vice versa.  Symptoms experienced by mast cell patients can vary quite a bit from one person to the next.  Fun, eh?

Heather
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #36 - 01/02/13 at 16:00:34
 
ps - Antihistamines don't get rid of histamine.  They just block your histamine receptors so you don't suffer from the effects.  

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what your histamine level is if your trigger-happy cells overreact to it Wink

Heather
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #37 - 01/02/13 at 16:02:22
 
Hey Heather. Yes, I've got the no direct link between Tryptase and Histamine, partly because I have high Tryptase, low Histamine. But I have read some on partial degranulation (am I using the correct term?) and selective release of mediators. Oh yeah, lots of fun! : )

Still trying to figure things out......
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Benadryl/Alzheimers
Reply #38 - 01/02/13 at 16:42:29
 
Sometime in the last six months I read a disturbing article in the New York Times about Benedryl and Alzheimers.  Seems there's a connection.    (Will someone please tell me how to get a quote to show up with a gray highlight?)

Kitt,

I saw a blog in the NY Times about this subject and read the summary you posted.  I also went to the links about the study.  

Be very careful about posting a statement that asserts something like a connection between Benadryl and Alzheimers without reading and posting the original study or the facts of the study.  This type of statement can unnecessarily scare people who need Benadryl for a rescue medicine.  

From what I read, the study found that elderly patients who had been in  ICU, had a higher probability of having cognitive problems if they were taking multiple anticholinergics. (The first generation antihistamines, like Benadryl and Atarax are anticholinergics.)  

They did NOT know whether this was a short-term or long-term effect and did not blame Benadryl alone.  The study I read was published several years ago, and as far as I know has not been repeated or confirmed.

There are many "news" sources in which facts are not accurately or thoroughly reported, and many individual studies that make assertions that may never be proven.  It makes good press, but not always good science.

The ultimate recommendation was for people to be careful about taking multiple anticholinergic medicines at once, but I didn't see any warning about Alzheimers or any recommendation to avoid Benadryl specifically, especially if there is a serious condition that needs to be treated with it.

If there's something I didn't find, please post a link.  In the meantime, if anyone has fears about this issue, and/or if you are taking a number of anticholinergics, do discuss it with your doctors.
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #39 - 01/02/13 at 17:11:03
 
Heather, I missed your PS Post. I do understand that antihistamines just block receptors. Interesting thought about Mast Cells overreacting to Histamine. Do you have a link to any info on this?

Thanks, Gail.
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #40 - 01/02/13 at 18:05:25
 
Joan,

I read a lot of New York Times newspapers, and while I can't post that article, (it was not the blog you Googled), here's an article about Benadryl and other drugs and their impact on cognitive impairment and relationship to Alzheimer's.http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/sleep/articles/2009/06/04/som...

And another...
http://www.healthcentral.com/alzheimers/news-290406-98.html

I am very careful about statements, and people can certainly Google this information. There are many references to this on the internet.  

In addition I asked my pharmacist about it after reading the NYT's article, and he was aware of the issue and said to stay away from Benadryl, but the other anti-histamines were safe.

In addition Dr. Oz did a segment on this topic, and while I can't find the original segment online, there are many posts with people talking about it who saw the show.  It was specifically about Benedryl and Alzheimer's research.    I can't speak to that, because I didn't see it.

This is a legitimate topic of concern.  People can read about it and make their own decisions about which anti-histimines to use.




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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #41 - 01/02/13 at 18:06:52
 
Think about this scenario: two people have normal lab tests, only one goes into anaphylaxis at the drop of the hat and the other does not.  Most people fit into the second category... even the rest of my family.  I'm in the first category.  Why?  This is what the researchers are trying to figure out.  I have the DVDs for one of the TMS conferences (2010, I think) and I heard Dr. Theoharides ask this exact question.  

TMS also describes trigger-happy mast cells in MCAS patients...

Quote:
Mast cell diseases include mastocytosis, where the body produces too many mast cells, and mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), where even the normal number of mast cells are too easily activated by a trigger to release their contents, called mediators.


This is where the "A" in MCAS comes from.

Heather
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #42 - 01/02/13 at 19:10:22
 
Thanks Starflower. I do know about hyper-reactive MCs, though. What I was wondering about is if you knew of any information regarding MCs being hyper-reactive to Histamine specifically, as I was wondering why one would take Antihistamines if one's Histamine was low.

Gail.. night all
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #43 - 01/02/13 at 19:35:46
 
There seem to be 2 different topics here, so I'm going to start a new thread about the Benadryl/Alzheimers topic.
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Re: POTS, IC, CFS, and now Masto? Am new here.
Reply #44 - 01/03/13 at 02:56:00
 
I would say that the why take antihistamine question has been answered multiple times already here. Let's move on from that discussion, please, and allow the original poster to have her thread back.

Thank you,
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