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ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results (Read 17599 times)
Ladybug
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ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
05/18/14 at 08:41:02
 
I sure hope everyone is having a gentle Sunday. I was going through some notes and a question just hit me this morning and thought I'd post around to see if I could get some feedback.

When my new Rheumatologist ran tests on me several months ago he told me that the results were probably due to my Mast Cell Activation Syndrome and that I didn't need to go back to him.

In hindsight, I am now asking myself does everyone with Mast Cell Disease have Positive ANA? If so, this would make sense. If not, then wouldn't this mean something else is going on? Why didn't the Rhuematologist call my mast cell doctor and ask him?

Here are my 3 flagged results:

> ANA (CHOICE) - POSITIVE
> RNP AB - 1.0 POS AI
> CRP C-ReactiveProt hs Cardiac - HIGH SENSITIVITY CRP 6.8 mg/L H

Thank you in advance for any wisdom, thoughts or questions you may be able to pass along.
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Futurehope
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #1 - 05/18/14 at 15:08:01
 
My ANA was negative.

My C-reactive protein in high, but not as high as yours is.

I don't know if I've had RNP-AB run, but a rheumy ran a bunch of tests for me, so if I've had that test, it was negative.

If I were you, I would consult someone else or do some research.  I am not totally trusting what you were told, unless he is feeling super confident that you are not displaying any symptoms that he looks for?
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Starflower
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #2 - 05/18/14 at 16:21:11
 
I've had a positive ANA several times.  Autoimmune disorders run in my family.  I've been diagnosed with chronic autoimmune urticaria (one type of MCAD).  I also have Hashimoto's (autoimmune hypothyroidism).  In 2010 I had extensive testing... 40+ vials of blood, a bone marrow biopsy, PET scan, etc... with a hematologist at the University of Arkansas.  My ANA at the time was 1:320 and he said that was definitely because of the mast cell disorder.  My CRP at the time was fine, but last year it was high.  I haven't had any new symptoms in a while (thank God!) and my medications are working just fine, so I feel confident that I have the right diagnosis.

It's good to ask questions though!  And to keep in mind that it's possible to have more than one (co-morbid) disorder.

Heather
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Ladybug
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #3 - 05/18/14 at 16:49:16
 
Starflower wrote on 05/18/14 at 16:21:11:
I've had a positive ANA several times.  Autoimmune disorders run in my family.  I've been diagnosed with chronic autoimmune urticaria (one type of MCAD).  I also have Hashimoto's (autoimmune hypothyroidism).  In 2010 I had extensive testing... 40+ vials of blood, a bone marrow biopsy, PET scan, etc... with a hematologist at the University of Arkansas.  My ANA at the time was 1:320 and he said that was definitely because of the mast cell disorder.  My CRP at the time was fine, but last year it was high.  I haven't had any new symptoms in a while (thank God!) and my medications are working just fine, so I feel confident that I have the right diagnosis.

It's good to ask questions though!  And to keep in mind that it's possible to have more than one (co-morbid) disorder.

Heather


Hey Heather,

Thank you for responding so quickly. My allergist said I have Idiopathic MCAS. Wow, you sure had lots of blood drawn. I'd be on the floor with that much being taken.

My Rheumy said that he thought the ANA was was result of MCD, but then I heard that MCD is not autoimmune. Would you know of anything in writing about this?

Thanks!
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Ladybug
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #4 - 05/18/14 at 16:51:54
 
Futurehope wrote on 05/18/14 at 15:08:01:
My ANA was negative.

My C-reactive protein in high, but not as high as yours is.

I don't know if I've had RNP-AB run, but a rheumy ran a bunch of tests for me, so if I've had that test, it was negative.

If I were you, I would consult someone else or do some research.  I am not totally trusting what you were told, unless he is feeling super confident that you are not displaying any symptoms that he looks for?


You're right about needing to ask more questions. I don't have that much confidence in the Rheumy. He said that he never heard nor knew anything about MCAS.  Sad  He "quessed" that the ANA could be mast cell related. But then he didn't mention about the other two areas and what they mean.

Thanks for your input!
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KatFromMD
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #5 - 05/19/14 at 04:50:13
 
My ANA has been elevated every time it was tested for decades now.  All of the rheumatologists have felt that it was indicative of something wrong with my immune system that wasn't yet showing up in other tests.  This was before I finally got the MCAS diagnosis.  (I also have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.)

It looks like they didn't run a titration, so there's no way to know just how high it is, but unless it is very high, I would probably chalk it up to MCAS.

CRP is generally a measure of the level of inflammation you have going on in your body and as far as I know isn't indicative of any specific disease.  It is also associated with heart disease.  Mine, weirdly, has always been pretty low (maybe all the anti-inflammatories I take?)  From what I read on Wikipedia, anything under 10mg/L is normal; your rheumatologist might just have his system set to flag for lower levels.

I don't know enough about RNP ABs to offer an opinion.
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Ladybug
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #6 - 05/19/14 at 12:49:32
 
Quote:
My ANA has been elevated every time it was tested for decades now.  All of the rheumatologists have felt that it was indicative of something wrong with my immune system that wasn't yet showing up in other tests.  This was before I finally got the MCAS diagnosis.  (I also have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.)

It looks like they didn't run a titration, so there's no way to know just how high it is, but unless it is very high, I would probably chalk it up to MCAS.

CRP is generally a measure of the level of inflammation you have going on in your body and as far as I know isn't indicative of any specific disease.  It is also associated with heart disease.  Mine, weirdly, has always been pretty low (maybe all the anti-inflammatories I take?)  From what I read on Wikipedia, anything under 10mg/L is normal; your rheumatologist might just have his system set to flag for lower levels.

I don't know enough about RNP ABs to offer an opinion.


Hey Kat, Thanks for the info. What does the titration look like on the lab results? I can look for it because I have a few others listed, which showed up normal. Thanks!
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Lisa
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #7 - 05/19/14 at 13:45:25
 
I have an ANA of 1:320, HASHIMOTO'S and a positive ASST skin test, which is known autoimmune for Chronic URticaria (which I do not have any urticaria).   These tests have all been thrown at my MC disorder.  I've gone through extensive immunological testing and nothing more is revealed and thereby the doctors have said my masto has an autoimmune element.   It can open up possible treatment options but you've got to have doctors who feel that it's worth it and can understand it.  


I hope this helps!

Lisa
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Starflower
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #8 - 05/19/14 at 17:25:21
 
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Walkin' the line between faith and fear
This life don't last forever
When you cry I taste the salt in your tears
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KatFromMD
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #9 - 05/20/14 at 03:55:10
 
Quote:
Hey Kat, Thanks for the info. What does the titration look like on the lab results? I can look for it because I have a few others listed, which showed up normal. Thanks!


It would have been part of the ANA results.  They either run just ANA  or ANA with reflex (which means if the ANA result is positive, they do further testing).  The reflex testing includes a titer to determine the approximate dilution ratio needed to dilute the sample to the point that the ANA show up at some minimal amount - which I can't remember.  The results are then reported as a ratio, for instance, Lisa's 1:320.  They keep doubling the amount of dilutant, so the next would be 1:640, though the number of ANA isn't necessarily twice as much, but somewhere between 1:320 and 1:640.  The higher the number, the higher your level of ANA.  I believe the reflex may also test for more specificity in the type of ANA.
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Ladybug
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #10 - 05/26/14 at 10:27:00
 
Quote:
Quote:
Hey Kat, Thanks for the info. What does the titration look like on the lab results? I can look for it because I have a few others listed, which showed up normal. Thanks!


It would have been part of the ANA results.  They either run just ANA  or ANA with reflex (which means if the ANA result is positive, they do further testing).  The reflex testing includes a titer to determine the approximate dilution ratio needed to dilute the sample to the point that the ANA show up at some minimal amount - which I can't remember.  The results are then reported as a ratio, for instance, Lisa's 1:320.  They keep doubling the amount of dilutant, so the next would be 1:640, though the number of ANA isn't necessarily twice as much, but somewhere between 1:320 and 1:640.  The higher the number, the higher your level of ANA.  I believe the reflex may also test for more specificity in the type of ANA.


Hi Kat,

There is nothing that reflects a ratio like you showed on the Rheumatologists report. Is this something that the doctor should have ordered in follow-up? His response reads, "The only remarkable test results are borderline positive RNP, which does not signify any specific autoimmune conditions, and a slightly elevated HIGH SENSITIVITY CRP result which could be associated with your Mast Cell Activation Syndrome. I do not believe you have enough features to properly diagnose a true autoimmune disorder and recommend you continue to follow with your Hematologist and PCP for now."

Thanks so much.
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Ladybug
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #11 - 05/26/14 at 10:31:50
 
PS:  Here is another question I have. I sent lab highlight reports to Dr. Castells last week along with a few questions. I also offered to pay her for her time.

I told her that I have MCAS and completed my first round of Xolair shots.

I heard back from Dr. Castells' office today, but I don't know what she means and I don't know for sure if it was from her or from a staff? Can anyone advise? I sent her lad reports, told her that I had MCAS and just had my first set of Xolair shots. I asked her if I should have any other tests done based upon results of my other tests. I separated and numbered the response for ease of reading and for feedback. Here is what I received a few minutes ago:

"1) Xolair should be of help and it takes 3-4 injections to have an impact on mast cell related symptoms and urticaria. You symptoms can be compatible with secondary MCAS , which would be treated with Xolair.
>>>> My question: I don't understand this response because I already told her that I am already diagnosed MCAS and already being treated with Xolair.  Undecided

2) We can review your slides and look for mast cell aggregates , CD25 abnormal staining and abnormal mast cell morphology. Dr Jason Hornick can review with us the nature and extent of mast cells infiltration from the GI.
>>>>>My question: Can anyone further clarify for me?

3) Kenisha will provide the specifics.
>>>>> My question: I guess I will hear more from one of her staff?

4) You may be a candidate for Plaquenil if your CRP is elevated or ANA is positive. "
>>>>> My question: Can't MCAS contribute toward an increase of CRP and positive ANA in some patients?

I've been anxiously waiting to hear from her and now feel a little disappointed because she didn't answer any of my questions. What do you all think? Thanks.
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Lisa
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #12 - 05/28/14 at 16:52:08
 
Hi Ladybug!

Hey listen, don't be disappointed, you got tremendous answers from Dr. Castells!!!   You're just expecting too much, that's all.  


You need to understand, she can't give you any personal judgement on your case because you are not her patient.  She can only give you vague replies, generalized as to what is going on with other patients and treatment options.  If you want her specific input then you must go there and become her patient.  That's just how it goes.  

1.  She gave you confirmation - "your symptoms ca be compatible with secondary MCAS"   and yes, "which would be treated with Xolair".   This is confirmed in recently published articles.   She again, can't comment on your case because you are not her patient - she is protecting herself from potential lawsuits because ethically she can't comment on any patient unless that patient is under her care.   It's the law.

2.  What a tremendous offer of support!!!   She's really very gracious in helping us patients who are not in her care and this is just an example of that support!!!   I may contact them for this very motive because my son's doctors have admitted that they are lost!!!   And again - she can't clarify for reason #1

3.  Yes!

4.  Again, reason #1

You are going to have to be patient.  Start working on a list of questions so that when you do go see her, then you can pull out that list and go to it!!!   Smiley


Hope this helps!


Lisa


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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #13 - 06/18/14 at 16:02:32
 
I have Autoimmune Chronic Urticaria and have had ANA results as high as 1:1280.  I've had all the mast cell disease symptoms at any given time.  My worst symptom is fatigue but that falls under my Dysautonomia diagnosis.  The only med I can tolerate is Zyrtec at night.  

Regarding Dr. Castells answers she was saying that yes you have an autoimmune mast cell disease and Xolair does help.

Also, I went to a new rheumotologist and I had a positive anti-DNA result for the 1st time since I've been sooo sick (lupus) marker.  I made him give me Plaquenil and I asked why he wouldn't just say I had lupus and his response was "You really have peaked my interest in your autoimmune mast cell disease and recommended a "specialist"
in mast cell disease about 45 minutes away.

I'm so glad to see Dr. Castells mentioned this med. in her response to you.  

If I find out anything interesting at my 7/1/14 appt. I'll post.
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DeborahW, Founder
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Re: ANA due to Mast Cell? Rheumatology Results
Reply #14 - 06/25/14 at 03:53:30
 
When I was first ill before anyone knew I had mast cell disease, I had an ANA of 1:320. Then it just disappeared and went back to normal. My internist couldn't figure it out. I also had some markers for lupus, but not the required number of markers. So they ruled out Lupus for me.

Now I see it was just good ole mast cells!
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