kaz wrote on 10/27/11 at 01:16:09:So, I have a few questions and I would love to hear what people have to say
1. Fibro/Masto issue. I know research shows that fibro sufferers have more mast cells in the skin but how common is the progression from fibro to masto? do the fibro conditions improve as the masto is brought under control?
2. masto progression - how do you know when your masto is stable? I mean, if the immunologist can see that I am just starting to develop masto when/where will it stop or be stabilised? How do you know its not getting worse or do we just need to keep getting bone biopsies to tell?
3. if you were told that you were just developing masto, knowing what you know now, what would you do differently (if anything)?
4. The red spots issue - do they ever go away?
5. Solar hives - has anyone with hives from the sun been tested and is it the heat, the UV A or UV B that sets your hives off? is it worth getting tested to find out exactly what triggers the solar hives?
6. dermatographism - is this something that everyone with masto develops? if you have it, did you have it for very long before the full-on masto developed?
7. research - does anyone know the best medical journals for masto research?
Kaz
Welcome to the forum, Kaz. Sorry you need to be here!!!
Kaz, according to research and researchers every single form of masto is a genetic defect upon the MC itself. They believe that depending upon the defect and the degree of that defect this influences the form of the mast cell disorder. This is brand new research and they are only finding these things out and they are still formulating their theories, so this is difficult to know for certain. Until they can find the genome and begin tracking the different forms looking at the genome itself, then these are theories still and they don't have definitive answers.
However, in considering what they do know already, it looks as though this is what the situation is - depending upon your particular genetic defect, and perhaps your genetic makeup, you are going to have varieties as to the symptoms you show.
It has been proven that there are morphologically changed mast cells in the skin of fibromyalgia patients. Morphologically changed mast cells ONLY occur in mastocytosis! So, this appears to indicate that fibromyalgia is indeed a form of MC disorder (oh PETER!
). The fact that many masto patients have Intersticial Cystitis and IBS and many other problems seems to indicate that the common denominator here is the malfunction of the MC, thus reinforcing the theory that these are all forms of a MC disorder and that depending upon the genetic defect, the patients are going to show various degrees of symptom involvement. Yet, depending upon our individual genetic makeup, this may influence why some of us have some of these issues and others of us don't. I don't have fibromyalgia, but boy do my joints yell at me! And yet, if the sun hits my skin, it burns with pain and gets red easily! Why? Due to the excess histamine release going on, the chronic MC mediator release.
Now, what FORM of MC disorder do I have? Well this requires INVESTIGATION in order to find out. Right now the researchers have established the umbrella diagnosis as Mast Cell Disorder. On the left side you have the neoplastic/clonal/proliferative form (Systemic Mastoctytosis) and on the right side you have the non-clonal/activation form (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome) and in the middle you have the monoclonal MCAS/ MMAS patients who show BOTH forms.
The proliferative form, SM, is the most dangerous form in that the MCs don't die off when they should and they end up invading the tissues causing real damage. It appears that depending upon the defective form, you will have the more aggressive form of SM or the lesser aggressive form. These are the forms which will raise the tryptase to chronically high levels and they have found that trytpase reflects the MC burden of the patient.
It is due to the unknowns of MC research that if a patient is showing a great deal of activity or high levels of tryptase that they will be required to undergo a BMB and appropriate staining and study. It's necessary for the safety of the patient to identify what form the neoplasm is in.
With the MMAS patient, this is also necessary and this is because they are not certain if the MMAS patient is in an early stage of the disease, or if this is a seperate form which is not so aggressive as the ISM form of masto. At this point it seems that there are a fewer number of these patients than the ISM and MCAS patients so they are not certain what is going on here yet. So, they are looked at with the same eye as the ISM patient. These patients can be autoimmune/autoinflammatory or not.
The MCAS patient is the best off of the three. These patients show all of the activity of the ISM and MMAS patient, however, the neoplasm is no where to be seen and many of these patients also show no signs of chronic MC activation. They have a genetic defect upon their MCs, but the MCs give every appearance of normality.
With every one of these patients, fibromyalgia, IC, IBS and any other number of other "diagnoses" can be made and in truth, these are not seperate issues, but instead SYMPTOMS OF A MAST CELL DISORDER of some kind!
Does this make sense now?
As to progressing into SM, your doctor is kind of right. If you are like me, suspected of MMAS, it may be that yes, my form of masto has been found in the early stages and is progressing into the full blown ISM. However, research is still not at that point yet and they are not certain but are suspecting that instead of this progressing into the full blown ISM, it's another form. However, even then, ISM is a progression of the proliferation of the clonal MCs, which means that you were born with a defect upon your MCs and it take YEARS AND YEARS for the progression to get to the point until it finally overtakes your symptoms and the disease shows its face.
Those of us who have our disease suddenly and violently come out of hiding due to some kind of trauma are more often than not autoimmune masto patients, from what I've seen talking amongst patients for the past 4 years. Yet the autoimmune form of MC disorder can be seen in the MMAS and MCAS patient and although I'm not certain I'll bet anything in the ISM patient. Yet for the ISM patient this doesn't seem to be the major issue, however, there are plenty of masto patients with other diagnosed autoimmune diseases, but since the ISM patients have the proliferation form, more often than not their symptoms are a slow worsening progression of symptoms until it finally is obvious and the doctors find the classic case of ISM. Yet, this is the interesting twist in that when the aggressive SM patient is found, they too go violently and suddenly from being fine to horrendously and dangerously sick!
Now, as to fibro going into masto - no, this are seperate issues within MC disorders. You can have systemic masto with or without fibromyalgia and there are patients with fibro who never have masto. If you are thinking about the UP lesions, these are lesions on the top layers of the skin whereas fibro are morphed MCs in the deeper layers of the skin. So it's a MC disorder of different characteristics. Understand - they one doesn't move into the other, they remain separate.
Stability is also a separate issue and I'm not sure how you can attain this with ISM. They tell patients to keep their triggers down but I don't know if this affects ISM, but I believe it helps keep the cloning process down. The MCAS patients seem to me to be more reactive and the reacting can get into a vicious cycle, and this is more so for the autoimmuners since they are allergic to their own selves. But in whatever form, keeping those triggers at a minimum is essential REGARDLESS of the form. But since there is still so much that the researchers don't know, these are my own thoughts on the subject and I could be making a researcher laugh their head off at my theories right now!
As to knowing the worsening/progression of the masto, this is reflected through the Tryptase levels, CBCs and the biopsies, not the behavior. The symptoms are a seperate issues and there are some aggressive SM patients who died and their families only knew of the disease upon autopsy! So they didn't even know they were so sick until after they died and yet there are some autoimmune IA patients who are the non-clonal MCAS and they are so horrendously sick they are prisoners of their homes. But the "progression" is based upon levels of anemia and also evidence of pathological damage in the organs and bone marrow. But this is mainly applicable to those who have the proliferative form. REGARDLESS, the CBCs and Tryptase are the easiest means to seeing the health of the patient.
Would I change anything? WHY? It's a useless question that you will only torture yourself with, Kaz, for it's in the past. What you know now is what matters and that means accepting the facts and listening to your body and adapting to the changes you must do in order to find health and stability once again. Yet what you are really asking is did you do anything to provoke or cause your masto? NO! It's a genetic disorder! Genetic researchers are trying to find the genome now for they suspect that this could be a much bigger kettle of fish than previously thought. You may have it in the family without knowing it and it only showed up in the full blown form in you. Others in your family may have lesser degrees of this defect and this is why you don't see them with it. I say this because this is what we are finding in my family - both of my sons seem to have it and yet we are keeping an eye upon my daughter but for right now, she doesn't seem to have it.
Those red spots should be biopsied, stained with Giemsa and put through the immunohistochemical testing for masto, just to see why and what is going on there. You could have TMEP perhaps.
Solar hives - my daughter has had these, but my sons and I do not. My skin will burn with the heat, however.
Dermatographism - too much histamine in the skin. I have this - not a big deal, but a symptom of masto.
Research??? It's all spread out in many different journals and you won't find one specific one with a concentration of it. It's best if you google the subject, trying to find some aritcles and write to the author to ask for a copy.
Whew! I got into this more than I thought I would!! Sorry!
I hope this helps!
Lisa