Mast Cell Disorders Forum - salicylates and mast cell degranulation

Godsgal

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salicylates and mast cell degranulation
05/09/11 at 09:52:45

I've been doing some research and I'm trying to figure out why I'm not getting better. I'm beginning to ponder salicylate intolerance. So some people can not tolerate aspirin...which is a salicylate. And I can not tolerate histamines and I'm starting to think salicylates as well because I got sick from aspirin. Has anyone on here heard of this?
I read on one site although of course that doesn't mean it's true is that salicylates are mast cell degranulation. I eat pretty much all salicylates all day. I eat TONS of fruit. All salicylates.

Any of this making sense to anyone????

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Joan

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #1 - 05/09/11 at 10:20:59

Yes, salicylates can be a problem for some mast cell disorder patients.

This site lists foods and other things that contain salicylates:

my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/allergies/hic_special_diets_for_food_allergies.
aspx

The best way to know if it bothers you is to eliminate as much of it as possible from your diet and meds. It affects some, but not all, people. If it bothers you, getting it out of your diet might make a world of difference in how you feel!

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Joan

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mikev Guiding Light Offline I Love YaBB 2! Posts: 188 st louis, mo	Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation Reply #2 - 05/09/11 at 10:46:03 Gal: I as well am what they call Nasids intolerant. Aspirin, meds like celebrex, & opium based pain killers cause my symptoms to get a lot worst. So not a surprise for you to have problems with aspirin, a lot of us do. Mike V
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missybean

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #3 - 05/09/11 at 12:18:09

I just learned at the PNW meeting that tomatoes, beef, pork, onions, chocolate, oranges and wheat are some of the worst and highest salicylate containing foods. Oh also curry.
In one of the booklets we got it said asprin is an obilgatory mast cell degranulator. What ever that means.
I have read before that some people might be able to tolerate some fruits depending on where they are grown and of what variety. Supposedly the old varieties are better and the newer ones have higher salicylates. Also when it's local produce and picked ripe it has a lower salicylates and when it is store produce which is generally picked when unripe it has a higher salicylate content. I would go for locally grown organic non GMO produce if you can. Both of the sites I linked have some info on it.

http://autoimmunethyroid.wordpress.com/2006/03/07/ripeness-and-salicylates-and-a...

http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsalicylates2.htm

Melissa

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Riverwn FORUM MODERATOR/ADVISOR Offline Posts: 993 Gainesville, Florida	Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation Reply #4 - 05/09/11 at 12:24:08 You sound normal to me LOL, I cant tolerate aspirin either. Hugs Ramona
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Sandi

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #5 - 05/09/11 at 13:39:42

Dr Miner explained it at the TMS conference this past year, I'll try to re watch him to remember what he said. Varieties matter bigtime. For me local is not good. All the local stuff here in the desert is very weird,
pollen or weedy like in flavor. But yeah, elimination of questionable items for a while then you can re introduce one thing at a time and test it out. Also remember you will have days when you know you shouldn't have a particular item but other days/weeks you can get away with it. (chocolate, tomato sauce) It's very frustrating trying to figure out all the triggers and there will be some you can't but you will begin to gain some control of your symptoms!

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Sandi

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #6 - 05/09/11 at 13:49:31

BTW, this is Jared right?

I think so, my memory might be ok at the moment! I'd consider getting the DVD set to this past years conference and listening to DR Miner, DR Theo, and Castelles. I didn't care at all for Nancy Russell, Doc of public health, in fact I really disagreed with a lot she had to say. I don't care for "book only intellegence" or only what studies say is the golden rule. Off my soapbox now, I reluctantly stayed for Overman/ Selak "You don't look Sick" and am really glad I did. It's really good for your "mental acceptance" of your disease, fight it everyday but realize the new you and plan for the new you lifestyle.
The nutrition panel I love Dr Miner, but had no clue why they had Nancy Russell, or Brazos Minshew, He was wonderful but his expertise in mast cell issues really isn't applicable to a mast cell nutrition panel. It was more a general nutrition panel for people with no problems triggering to foods etc unless Dr Miner spoke! Dr Theo and Dr Castelles are wonderful, Dr Theo, my gosh I think that man will cure us some day! He's so passionate in regards to finding a cure and educating. You can get the DVD set at tmsforacure.org and go to the store and Healing in the Desert October 2010 annual conference DVD's.

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Starflower

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #7 - 05/09/11 at 14:14:00

Just adding my two cents...

Salicylates aren't the only reason that some of us are sensitive to aspirin. It's also a blood thinner! Through trial and error I've learned that I can't handle any additional thinning of my blood... aspirin, NSAIDs, turmeric... they all give me nosebleeds and dizziness. I've had extensive testing to rule out clotting disorders and platelet dysfunction, so I feel confident in saying that this bleeding problem is connected to my mast cell disorder.

Heather

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ruth

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #8 - 05/10/11 at 00:25:06

Here is the short answer to what are salicylates :

Salicylates are chemicals that occur naturally in many plants, including many fruits vegetables, and herbs. Salicylates in plants act as a natural immune hormone and preservative, protecting the plants against diseases, insects, fungi, and harmful bacteria. Salicylates are also created synthetically and can be found in many medicines, perfumes and preservatives

There is more information on the web if you do a search, including forums like Salicylate Sensitivity. You will notice though that salicylates are found in plants, not meat products, so unless there are preservatives added they shouldn't be in beef. It is commonly found in the leaves and skin of plants, and levels decrease as they ripen. So very ripe, peeled fruit will have lower levels of sals.

An approach I like is the broader one taken by the RPAH Allergy unit in Sydney which look at intolerance reactions as sensitivity to chemicals, in food and environmental, naturally occurring and added. This inculdes sals, amines, glutamates and additives like colorings and preservatives. They also cover the other major groups like soy, dairy and gluten. You may or may not be sensitive to all groups, but these are all likely candidates.

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missybean Mentor Offline I Love YaBB 2! Posts: 439 Washington	Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation Reply #9 - 05/10/11 at 16:58:04 Ruth, I thought that was strange that meat was on list. This was info and notes I got off of the 2010 conference video with Dr. Miner, I believe he is a gastroentrologist. I could have taken the notes down wrong. If Sandi has a copy of it and watches it she can correct me. Melissa
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Sandi

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #10 - 05/19/11 at 19:17:37

Dr Miner is referring to the seven deadly sins ( the typical severe offenders of severe gastro food sensitivity patients, it's a good starting point for healing) not only salicylates. Gosh I wish that was my only food avoidance! Cheesy

The meats listed were in that group, I think are also in the histamine group. He did say some days you can have them however during bad times stay away from and each person is incredibly different. Beef and pork are on the list but 30 percent can have beef and pork or one or the other or grain fed or grass fed so it's up to us to discover. Again being fully aware of the fact that our bad days, nothing will truly work. Melissa! I love that DVD I think I've watched it 3 times now and need to again my notes stink and my brain has forgotten. He was tying salyclates and high tyromine foods to blocking your diamiine oxidase production( I think) and if you block that, it's what breaks down histamine in your stomach/gut so now it's gone and your histamine goes up bigtime along with your symptoms...... That's my bad memory/ terrible notes version. I'm feeling cruddy so may actually have time to watch it this weekend and I'll correct the info that I got wrong! Anyway I think that was the link! It's a phenom hour of info isn't it Melissa? Have you ever heard of the moving further north and symptoms getting better thing? That was interesting!

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missybean Mentor Offline I Love YaBB 2! Posts: 439 Washington	Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation Reply #11 - 05/20/11 at 03:07:10 Sandi, what do you mean moving north. Geographically?
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Joan

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #12 - 05/20/11 at 04:45:15

That's interesting about moving north. I haven't seen that video, but I've gotten significantly better since leaving a rainy, moldy, climate and going to a dry one. I personally think it was worth it, but there was a lot of grieving to be done when leaving our friends and a place we still loved. For me, I think the change was from going to a place with less mold and fewer other environmental triggers. In Arkansas I couldn't go outside much of the year without triggering. Here, I can be outside every day with no worsening of symptoms for 11+ months/year.

Riper fruit may have fewer salicylates, but doesn't it contain more histamine or other triggers?

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Joan

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Sandi

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #13 - 05/20/11 at 06:46:24

Oh yes Lisa I'm not giving up! I just know I won't try any others unless they are a specialist. Remember your perfume reaction to your son in the car. That's me walking out my front door. I react to a lot of stuff I still go grocery shopping, etc. But I can get very ill and do, doing the basics. There is not one food I can take and eat from a bag, box, everything requires preparation , no restaurant food at all, cannot sit in a movie theater due to the latex in the chairs taking my breath away. Flying is a non option, along with train, I haven't given up, but I am severely limited. My last trip for 3 days I filled the van with all my stuff, the triggering was endless fully over the top medicated. Just to get out and go to the bathroom at a rest stop, fumes, peoples clothing etc. On the chest pains If I discontinue the "trigger" that caused the pains it doesn't come back. I know mine are allergic in nature, I've proved that over and over! I'm so thankful this disease is treatable with OTC meds, my GP is in agreement with a mast cell disorder and has no prob working with me. So until I want to spend the money for the diagnosis I'm still self managing. Anyway no pity party here, circumstances are not right for the travel or money expenditure. Enjoy that beautiful weather down yonder!!! And I thank you again for all the knowledge you all have imparted on us, I love what Fabios wife said ( she has a name I just can't remember right now!!) It's unreal for someone to feel so much better on a huge dosage of antihistimines but he does (paraphrased).... yep it's made a difference!

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Sandi

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Re: salicylates and mast cell degranulation
Reply #14 - 05/20/11 at 06:55:08

Melissa and Joan, Dr Miner didn't go into detail on the "phenomenon" or if it even has a name but it happens for some patients. He's had a few, go to test it out stay for 8+ weeks. He said a short visit is never a good idea. All short vacations can make you feel better. I love love love rainy foggy weather and live in the desert. I love the idea of Seattle!! Joan is right though, mold is a major trigger for me so If I was in an environment where mold was higher moving north would not help me out!!! He mentioned it very quickly and was over it quick, but it intrigued me. He had a physician that did discover he felt much better when he made the move.

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