Starflower wrote on 01/13/13 at 02:15:51:


Heather and others,
Thanks for reposting this article on Histamine and Histamine Intolerance, Heather.  I read it about a year ago and you prompted me to reread it.  I now have a deaper understanding of many of the concepts in the piece so am reading it differently now.  

As stated in the abstract and introduction, histamine intolerance results from a disequilibrium of accumulated histamine and the capacity for histamine degradation.  This to me points to problems in histamine catabolism or too much histamine as a reason for histamine intolerance.  

Check out page 1187, where it restates that histamine intolerance can develop through both increased availability of histamine and impaired histamine degradation.  It goes on to list multiple underlying conditions for increased availability may be endogenous histamine overproduction caused by allergies, mastocytosis, bacterias, GI bleeding, or increased exogenous ingestion of histidine or histamine by food or alcohol.   I take this as meaning that these authors in mid 2006 believed that mastocytosis can cause histamine intolerance.  This is before MCAS, so no suprise here that MCAS is not listed.  

Check out table 1, which lists the various histamine levels that were found to trigger various clinical effects.  At 3-5 ng/ml, anaphylaxis is triggered, with cardiovascular consequences of decreased arterial pressure at 6-8 ng/ml and bronchospasm at 7-12 ng/ml.   I am overwhelmed by reading the Figure 1, which concisely summarizes histamine mediated symptoms, many which I have faced, and the unique constellation of symptoms that counted as one criteria for my diagnosis of MCAS by a top mast cell specialist.  While several places throughout the article attributes these symptoms to healthy individuals transciently, as well as those with "histamine intolerance", how can this not be considered part of MCAS?  

Just as some with previous diagnoses of IA and IC are now being diagnosed with MCAS, I wonder how many have been diagnosed with Histamine Intolerance.  I've emet several from the UK who carry this last diagnosis and are seeking a MCAS diagnosis.  Interestingly, DAO is a tested in the UK much more readily than here, and DAO supplementation was availaable in the UK long before here.    

The way I understand, MCAS is a syndrome, or a collection of symptoms, and is NOT defined as a disease. Histamine Intolerance is a state of being or a symptom in itself.  I take it that histamine intolerance is a symptom of a mast cell disorder, just like flushing can be a symptom/sign of a mast cell disorder.  

Check out Figure 3.  Other than paying attention to DAO inhibiting medications or histamine liberating medications and DAO supplemention, it pretty much fits a typical MCAS diagnostic pathway and treatment plan for MCAS.  Considering this article comes from 2 Dermatologists from Germany in mid 2006, I feel this information, as well as the powerpoint I originally posted connects some big dots for me.  Maybe others will learn from it as well.  

Lyn                      

Doozlygirl wrote on 01/14/13 at 01:00:04:



Hey everybody, This is very educational and it´s serving as a good learning process!   Thanks!!!   I love to learn and I´m enjoying this discussion we all are having for we need to understand more about the processes and mechanisms and what is going on with us all.  

I want to add just a tad to it and I think that perhaps this will help.    One of the things that jumped out at me is that of the fact that this article above was published in 2006 - in the midst of the strongest time period when the major masto authorities were stauchly denying the existance of any kind of a MC disorder except systemic mastocytosis.   Any doctor who would bring up the subject of MC activation was quickly shot down in their tracks!!   The major proponents of SM being the ONLY form of a mast cell disorder were German, being Dr. Horny and Valent.  Without a doubt they have had a major influence on the other doctors within their country since they are high up there.  They absolutely refused to accept MC activation and are still  slowly coming around to this.   The major proponents behind MCA and MCAS are Dr. Castells, Dr. Escribano, Dr. Schwartz and Dr. Molderings (the only rebel German of the bunch!)   It took the work of Dr. Molderings, Dr. Escribano and Dr. Akin to finally break open the closed minds of these doctors and unfortunately this has influenced a great deal of work that was being published before that time and up to 2010 when the WHO Consensus meeting approved MCAS and has since refined its meeting.  

I think that it might be very possible that any kind of report coming out regarding histamine intolerance would have to be reconsidered as of 2010 for if you consider the word intolerance, it really makes no sense in the true sense of the word and perhaps this is what is bugging all of us.   I can tolerate histamine quite well, or lets say, nobody´s body, even a healthy person, is going to tolerate histamine directly injected  under their skin - they are going to react, period.  Histamine creates reactions even in healthy people - that´s it´s job.  So, yes, in that sense of the word there´s an intolerance, but if my body is metabolizing it properly, then I´m not intolerant to it in the classic sense, like a intolerance to peanuts or shrimp per se.  My body is metabolizing my histamines as well as it can only I´m producing too much so it´s too much for my system.  So, if you use the word intolerance in the classic form, no, I don´t have an intolerance, but if you use it in the way they are using it, then I guess I would have to say Yes, I do have an intolerance.  


Lisa

That is, until, with an open mind, we try to see it in other ways.  Then sometimes, we find that there is logical place for the discussion and information to fit in with what we already know!