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This episode justs goes on and on and on (Read 14003 times)
cutty sark
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This episode justs goes on and on and on
12/22/12 at 03:29:17
 
Hello folks - greetings from a wet and windy Scotland.

I'm basically on here for a a good old moan [always helps!].  I've been in a critical episode for a couple of months now. I'm in constant, elevated, flight or fight mode. I can literally feel the cells degranulating - like adrenalin pumping round my body which in turn is giving me at best a nagging headache and at worst cluster migraines. Brain fog and fatigue are making it difficult for me to do my work and studies and making me irritable and emotional.

The 'turns' are becoming more frequent - can be sitting relaxed and the heat, floating and nausea appears as if from out of nowhere - making my way to the bathroom, hanging over the sink and drenching with cold water relieves this in around 10 minutes.

Bone pain is intollerable and weakness in arms is increasing - can't open jars without pain some days.

My medication doesn't seem to be even touching the sides at the moment - I'm on ketotifen and have been for around 18 months [was prescribed this when neo-clarytin stopped doing the business] but all that seems to be doing now is making me drowsy to the point that I need to take siesta every day [not helpful when working!]. Singulair is helping me get some sleep but I am now only getting around 5 hours per night instead of my usual 8 -9. Hives are also back at night with a vengeance.

Any suggestions for alternative medications?

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PamH
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #1 - 12/22/12 at 08:53:02
 
Have you got a DX?
I was on ketotifen and my doc added Cromolyn Sodium. The two mast cell stabalizers did the job and really help to stablize me.  I am also on allerga and zantac.  Do you take any H1 or H2.  These will help tremendously when you can feel the degranulation.  I also use bendryl when I am triggering.

Good luck!
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #2 - 12/22/12 at 12:46:09
 
I would think that Zantac, Allegra, Zyrtec daily would help and benedryl as an emergency med. The question is do you have a doctor to discuss this with? I used to be as sick as you, possibly worse. Once I started the first 3 that I listed, I never got super ill anymore. For example, I take the following:

Morning
150 mg zantac
180 mg Allegra

Early evening
150 mg Zantac
10 mg Zyrtec

I don't know how they are used in relation to Ketofin, but you could ask your doctor or pharmacist.
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Joan
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #3 - 12/22/12 at 19:22:22
 
I couldn't tell if Ketotifen and singular are the only meds you're taking or not.  You might be able to address some of your other symptoms with medicines other than antihistamines, such as NSAIDS (if you can take them) or Tylenol.  When I have my worst pain (8 on a 1 to 10 scale), surprisingly, Tylenol and extra antihistamines seem to help.  Some people use Tramadol without ill effects.

If the Claritin doesn't help, you might need a stronger or additional H1 and H2antihistamines, as Deb suggested.  Hydroxyzine is a good one to try at night, because it's one of the most effective for hives and it is mildly sedating, so it might help with sleep.

I can't remember if you've identified some or all of your mast cell triggers.  If not, that could help, too.  If you post some more information about where you are regarding diagnosis, doctors, and non-medication measures to feel better, we might be able to help you more.

As for "alternative" medications, Dr. Theo's formula, "NeuroProtek" is giving some people a lot of relief.  It is anti-inflammatory as well as help stabilize mast cells.  I use turmeric capsules to help with pain and inflammation.  They seem to work really well.  They do contain salicylates, though.
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cutty sark
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #4 - 12/22/12 at 22:06:49
 
Thanks, folks.

Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer in my post yesterday!

I've been diagnosed for around 10 years via skin and BM. I've tried the cromolyn but it doesn't work for me, nor do NSAIDs. I can tolerate opiates so I take codeine for the pain [also have osteoporosis in spine and hips] but have to ration this as I work. I also did some trialing for UVA1 light treatment earlier this year - that helped during treatment but finished in August and things seem to have gone downhill since then - episodes never last as long as this.

By alternative I meant other [things so easily get lost in translation!] so thanks for the info.  The reason I asked is I have an appointment with my consultant on Monday and wanted to have some suggestions for him as to what people in other regions are using. He is excellent, by the way, Dr Dawe who works out of Ninewells Teaching Hospital in Dundee.
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PamH
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #5 - 12/23/12 at 08:13:24
 
Cutty,
I know we are all different, but as far as the Cromolyn, did you give it 3-4 months to start to work.  It does take several months for it to kick in.  Also, many stop taking it because it makes you so sick. So if you stopped taking it for that reason, that is normal in the beginning until you get up to the 4 doses a day.
I would say Cromolyn was the hardest and best medicine I have taken.  I thought I was going to die taking it because I was so sick, but I have anaphylaxis reactions to so many things, I felt I had no choice but to stick it out.  However after 3 or 4 months my bone pain deminshed and now after 9 months I have no pain at all!!  I was always popping some kind of pain pill, now occationally I take a tylenol for a headach. Like I said we are all different and we all can not take the same meds, but wanted to make those two points incase you stopped for one of those reasons.

Not sure if you have ever heard of epsom salts (magesium sulfate)baths.  But I am absolutley amazed at how they cleans my system.  I have a salicylate sensitivity, and my body does not process salicylates, they start backing up and I go into anaphylaxis.  I read about the epsom salts bath and was amazed!  I take one every day to help rid my body of salicylate build up, amazing!  If you try it start with less than a cup in the water.  The key is to only soak 20 mins. After 20 mins your body starts re-absorbing the toxins, so set a timer.  This should help with the pain also.  After a week you can add more.  I add 2 cups, but not more than that.  One time I spilled a bunch in the water and it caused diarreah, because it is also used as a laxative!  Happy soaking!
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #6 - 12/23/12 at 15:22:17
 
Hi Cutty!!!

Sorry you are feeling so bad!!!   Dundee!!! I've been there on my journeys!!!  Small world!!!

As to meds, you may not be on enough.  Dr. Castells has begun shortning the time between meds on some patients going from the 12/12 hour treatment to about every 5 hours.   She put me on 180mg allegra, 300mg ranitidine and 10mg singulair twice a day, but when I was post-op in 2010 my meds were put to a schedule of 6AM, 1PM and 7PM and this worked wonders for me.    You may need to be taking some kind of pain reliever that you are able to tolerate but codeine is questionable, however, I have heard masto doctors say that if you can tolerate it then there is no reason why not to use it.   I can't, but then I can tolerate NSAIDs.   Since you are in the UK, you may want to look into dipirona, which is a NSAID of sorts.  It's used a lot here in Brazil and I've found it to be very effective without creating any kind of issues.  And even though my doctors didn't want me taking things like Ibuprofen and the such, they never blinked at giving me dipirona post-op, which would be a time when you would normally be most reactive.    So, I think that it might be worth seeing if it's available in the UK.  

Now as to other alternatives, the highest authority you have in the UK is Dr. Clive Grattan from Norfok and Norwich University Hospital.  Dr. Grattan is an excellent doctor and knows UP very well.  I believe he is a dermatologist.   Here is his email for your doctor to contact him.  clive.grattan@nnuh.nhs.uk .   You can also ask your doctor to contact Dr. Luis Escribano in Spain.  He is a much higher authority in masto than Dr. Grattan is and here is his email too.  lescribanom@sescam.jccm.es  These doctors could probably give you some more options to deal with the pain and the reacting.  

I hope things get under control soon.  We do tend to go in phases like this.  You need to reduce your stress to a bare minimum and now at the holidays that's tricky but essencial!!   LET OTHERS DO THE COOKING AND CLEANING AND MERRY MAKING while you sit back, relax and ENJOY!!!

I hope you get better quickly!!


Merry Christmas!!

Lisa
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Don´t forget, there is so much more to life than being sick!
 
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cutty sark
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #7 - 12/23/12 at 19:10:04
 
Thankyou, Ladies!

Pam: I took the Cromolyn for around 9 months but it just didn't deliver for me.  Epsom salts are a traditional way of stopping the flow of breatmilk over here, also used for lowering blood pressure.  Baths are a no, no for me as I react to changes in temperature.  Sad

Lisa: I live about an hour north of Dundee small fishing village on the coast. Small world indeed!  Thanks for that advice, it may well be that all I need is an upping of the medication. I'll pass on the emails to Dr Dawe. I was reading some of the research by the team in Spain the other night. Spain is only a couple of hours by plane from here and I have friends in Valencia and Madrid so would be no problem for me to visit a clinic there. The codeine I take is crossed with paracetemol [tylenol] and it works to a degree for me, I'll check out dipirona.
Are allegra and raniditine sedating? I work full time and am doing my doctorate at the moment so need to have my wits about me!

I'll let you all know how things go today with the consultant.

A happy Chrstmas and all the best for 2013, everyone.
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #8 - 12/24/12 at 02:33:53
 
Your last sentence is very telling to me. If you read my intro story as well as some of my "tips" in the start here section of the forum, you will see that I advise that the path to getting well is not just medicines, but also changing one's lifestyle. I was nearly done with my doctorate degree when I became the most ill and bedridden for 4 weeks. I had to completely change my whole lifestyle. Although I was not yet diagnosed at that time, I had the foresight to know that I was never going to be able to hold a traditional job as a college professor, which was my goal. Doing anything I was passionate about always triggered me into anaphylaxis. So I halted the Ph.D. and just concentrated on relaxing and getting better. It took a very long time to figure out what doctors I needed, etc. because I didn't have a forum to go to and I certainly had never heard of a mast cell. Now I am thankful that somehow I figured it all out. One of the ways I did that was because my internist (who could not figure out what was wrong with me) told me to ask myself what I wanted to be doing in 10 years and how was I going to make that happen? That prompted some soul searching which made me put aside my career and focus on my health. It worked, and now I am one of the people on this forum who feels as well as we are going to feel. I lead a normal life to an extent (I will never go mountain climbing), and I feel really well (enough) every day. The reason is that I have adjusted my lifestyle to allow lots of relaxing and as little stress as possible. (The stress reduction is the hardest part, even for me).

So, you mention that you are working in your degree an must be at the top of your game. Sadly this might be a big trigger for you and until you focus in avoiding your triggers, you may not see the result you want. It's not what you will want to hear (who would?!), but perhaps pulling back and getting to feeling better will allow you to focus more on your degree and feel well later.

I apologize for any very long paragraphs or typos. I am writing this on my iPhone while on vacation, and it is too difficult to scroll back to fix any errors.
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cutty sark
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #9 - 12/24/12 at 05:39:37
 
Thanks, Deborah.  I head up a Human Rights/Equalities NGO and my Doctorate is based on minorities and the media, both are inextricably linked and crucial given the rise in the far right in Europe at this point in time.

You are, of course, right that I should take a step back. Problem is; if those of us in the NGO sector don't keep chipping away at the authorities no one else will.  But all that said, I know my body is telling me that I have to take some sort of respite - even if it is only a short one.

Anyhow, the consultant has taken that decision out of my hands today. He is of the opinion that the mast cell burden is simply too much at the moment - Tryptase dropped to >127 in the spring but was up at >140 late summer, more bloods taken today on the assumption that it has climbed much higher, these results [and other bloods] will be available in 2-3 weeks. He has prescribed the following medication in the interim and after the holidays I will have another Bone Marrow Aspirate and Biopsy [I've only had this once before and it was awful] results of which will determine if I go on to Interferon to reduce the burden.

20mg Singulair at night
20mg Atarax at night
8mg Benadryl 3 times a day
Codeine/paracetemol as and when needed.

Well enough of me. Thanks again for taking time to respond while on your holidays. All the best. Smiley
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #10 - 12/24/12 at 18:28:59
 
Cutty,

  Before you consider starting something like interferon, think about consulting with the doctors Lisa mentioned and/or Dr. Akin or Dr. Castells or Dr. Jason Gotlib in the U.S.

  It could be worth a try to take a leave of absence from the NGO and see if a few months of rest would help you feel better without chemotherapy.

  There don't seem to be any H2 antihistamine in your meds list.  I don't see enough daytime H1 antihistamines.  Don't know if you have access to other choices, but most of us are able to find a second generation, non-sedating antihistamine to use during the day.

  Have you tried a low histamine diet?  Do you know if you have any food triggers?  There are definitely foods that can cause me to have much worse pain.
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #11 - 12/25/12 at 01:56:18
 
Hi cutty,

You've gotten some great advice here. Esp the parts about when and which meds to take.  I'm following their advice and finding it makes a huge difference.

I just wanted to add that I didn't see you mention your diet. I'm finding that I really can't eat my known trigger foods and expect mast cell meds to counteract these.
Avoiding gluten, dairy, corn, soy, chemicals and caffeine may help you sleep better. I was a wreck on these.

Also allergy meds that make people sleepy always make me feel more drugged than most people. If you're using these for sleep why not try sleep meds or supplements. I've found 5 htp and melatonin helpful. These are chemicals our bodies should produce but don't always.

Theanine should calm you adrenals without sedating you. Be aware tho that if you use this for too long, your mind may become sluggish.

I appreciate your desire to keep your job. I stayed with mine for two years after getting to sick to stay awake during the day.
Knowing what I know now, I would've changed my diet, found an integrative doctor and tried supplements.

Instead I followed the advice of my traditional doctors, mds, and got sicker.

I know all doctors don't think alike but mine didn't run the tests that showed my hashimoto's, hyperinsulinemia, celiac disease, etc.  They didn't even realize that I had ataxia even tho I fell into walls in their offices.  Geesh !

 Improving my diet has made the biggest change for me but I'm very intolerant of gluten. If you're interested in what gluten can do see theglutenfile..

Tc .. Marcia

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CFS,FM,Celiac,Ataxia,Dysautonomia,Paget's,Seizures,PelvicPain,Hyperinsulinemia ...Responding to Wahls diet, supps and MC meds.. kow ...    
 
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #12 - 12/25/12 at 02:16:19
 
Thanks again ladies and a happy Christmas to you all.

I eat healthy Southern European/Middle Eastern style food - never any pre packed or processed food - and have managed to identify the majority of my food triggers so aviod these - although as you will all know one day a food might be fine the next day it is not, so like all I am always vigilant.

I'm taking these sedative types to stop the hives at night. The benadryl is three times a day - just started all these new ones yesterday so will have to give them a while to settle in.

I've tried myriad medications over the years Joan and the end result is always the same so to be honest [and from the papers I have read on the topic] I think the Interferon will give me the respite I need. We shall see. Smiley
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #13 - 12/25/12 at 02:33:18
 
Merry Christmas to you. And of course best wishes with whatever you decide to do. I'm curious about the success rates of what you're going to try.  I might need this too.

Sadly, "healthy diet" doesn't mean much to me anymore. Lol. I'm on the paleo / wahls diet but when it comes to healthy meats, I'm down to grass fed lamb, wild caught seafood (I just started rinsing these thoroughly to eliminate the proteins / bacteria on the surface) and "healthy" pork from whole foods. All poultry is out.  Certain veggies are out. Fermented foods are limitted to my homemade coconut kefir but on it's way out because of histamines. I'l stop ... ; )

On the hives, I just figured out last month that I need to avoid chemicals in detergents. I just started changing out my old cleansers.  Fwiw, my clothes already feel better.

I feel so dumb.  Embarrassed  I started getting sores on my scalp and it took me months to figure out it was a new shampoo. Lol ..  Sores on my scalp was a huge clue .. Haha

Also, I don't know what to make of it yet but when I was on steroids a couple of weeks ago I stopped getting my nightly hives.
I'm going to ask my doc about using a low dose of daily steroids, cortef to see if it helps.
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CFS,FM,Celiac,Ataxia,Dysautonomia,Paget's,Seizures,PelvicPain,Hyperinsulinemia ...Responding to Wahls diet, supps and MC meds.. kow ...    
 
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Re: This episode justs goes on and on and on
Reply #14 - 12/25/12 at 10:11:27
 
Marcia,

My doctor told me just recently that our bodies produce less steroids during the night, from about 8pm on to very early morning hours (before we get up).    (He thought that might be why I was having more trouble with swelling during the night.)

Maybe that has something to do with the steroids helping your hives at night?

BlueSkies

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