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lots of bruising (Read 7050 times)
WendyH
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lots of bruising
06/14/12 at 06:43:57
 
Anyone out there with SM have terrible bruising?  I keep finding more and more bruises small and big.  Right now I have 2 huge bruises on one arm and as bad as they look you would think it would have hurt when it happened but I have no idea where they came from.  I have several small ones on my legs, butt etc.  Also notice lately if I even get a scratch (minor one not big or anything) I bruise and the scratch scares like it was some big injury.  Don't know if this has anything to do with my UP spots disappearing or not.  I have only found one article about UP regressing in SM and that said that 2 out of 10 patients w/UP/SM where the UP regressed, 2 patients SM turned to ASM and the other 8 had their SM symptoms lessen.  That article was from 2001 so I have no idea what's going on.  But it looks like I have beaten.
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ruth
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #1 - 06/14/12 at 10:27:23
 
One of the mast cell mediators is heparin, which is a blood 'thinner' I.e. it doesn't actually thin the blood but it discourages the clotting process that normally stops bleeding, be it from a wound or the leaking of blood from small vessels into the tissues to form a bruise. Excessive bruising suggests that you have more heparin in your system, you would assume from too much being released from mast cells. Heparin is one of the things some doctors test to indicate mast cell activation.
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WendyH
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #2 - 06/14/12 at 10:47:41
 
Hmmm the heparin would explain alot.  If I get a little scratch sometimes it will bleed like there's no tomorrow.  My periods in the past year have been really heavy and last more than a week.  I don't know if the docs ever checked heparin levels.  There was no need I guess since SM was confirmed thru bmb.  I wonder if my mc's are continually leaking.
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ruth
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #3 - 06/14/12 at 18:40:00
 
Lisa or Joan might have more advice about this, I have often wondered whether anyone addresses this issue, or whether it is just seen as secondary, and if you deal with the mast cell burden or amount of degranulation then the heparin levels will decrease as a result.  My husband has been on warfarin (blood thinner) following DVTs and pulmonary embolism (nothing to do with masto) and his levels had to be carefully monitored to be sure he wasn't at risk from not clotting enough in an emergency situation. You could raise it with your doctor next time you visit.
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Lisa
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #4 - 06/16/12 at 01:21:03
 
Yes, Heparin is released from MCs.   And yes, Wendy, I think  you need to speak with a masto doctor about this for I too have read those articles on the disappearing spots and what they indicate.    I would strongly suggest you speak with Dr. Akin about this and ask what he has to say about this.  If I were doing that kind of bleeding and bruising, especially with your periods, this could be very dangerous and you need advice as to what you need to do.  

And, if I were you, in speaking with Dr. Akin, if he replied that this was not good, Iīd ask him if heīd see me ASAP.  

You know, Wendy, you sound pretty knowledgeable about masto and obviously youre doing research.  Yet I know from my own experience, our tendancies are to look at this from a rather detracted or distant viewpoint.  Itīs a self-defense measure to do so for then it doesnīt scare us so much and we donīt take it all so personally.  However, there comes a time when we must step back into the picture and analyze our own cases with the literature and I think you need to step back into the picture and consider what you are seeing with your own case and what the literature is indicating and question if perhaps itīs time you see a high authority.  Youīve mentioned already having done chemo.  Well, from what Iīve read, not a sane masto authority will do chemo on any ISM patient, only those who are going from smouldering into aggressive masto.  I canīt help but wonder if your doctors didnīt jump the gun and may have caused your masto to go into a direction it may not have gone otherwise.  I donīt wish to plant a seed of doubt for I donīt know your case and I donīt know who your doctors are and this is why I think you need to speak with someone like Dr. Akin and ask his advice.  You obviously need another opinion for if your doctors arenīt paying attention to such signs as subcutaneous bleeding with a case like yours, then I have to wonder.  And since youīre doing your own research, youīve got to have some peace of mind as to whether this bleeding is important or not.  

So, perhaps you might want to write to Deborah and ask for Dr. Akinīs email.  This is what I would do.



Good luckl

Lisa

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WendyH
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #5 - 06/16/12 at 03:49:41
 
Lisa,

I was on Gleevec in 2004/2005 in the clinical trial at MD Anderson in Houston w/ Dr. Verstovsek.  That is the oral chemo I was on.  In order for you to get in the study your bm mast cells had to test positive for cd117 and cd2 or cd25 mine were positive all 3.  I went there because my symptoms were out of control and no matter the cocktail (H1,H2's) nothing seemed to help.  Anyway, Gleevec didn't work as we know.  I have emailed Dr. Akin and Dr. Gotlib.  They both answered and Dr. Akin said he really can't say why the UP disappeared but suggested my doc do a cbc w/ diff to make sure nothing else is going on.  Dr. Gotlib said he couldn't say or suggest anything but he would be glad to see me.  I am just not up to traveling right now.  The HEM/ONC I went to see SLC a couple of weeks ago because I was told he knew alot about masto from one of the members here was a waste of time.  I don't think he knew much at all.  He didn't even want to hear about my symptoms that are going on now on a daily basis.  He did call me because he did a blood test cbc etc.  He said they look good and I am fine because he didn't see any mast cells in my blood.  I said well if it were in my circulating blood wouldn't that mean mast cell leukemia and he said yes.  I knew all this and was not very happy that that is all he was concerned about.  He said he didn't know what he could really do for me.  I told him I am just looking for a relief from my symptoms not a cure.  But he was trying to be kind but could tell he is no specialist when it comes to masto.  He is going to mail my blood work to me.  I am going to make an appt w/my PCP and have him do a heparin test and see if that is it.  I am going to talk to him about Dr. Gotlib and Dr. Akin, I know my pcp will gladly call for advice.  I am not wasting my time on these other quacks who say they know masto when they don't.  For now, I am going to try and ignore this sick feeling and everything that goes with it and do the mind over matter stuff.
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Joan
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #6 - 06/16/12 at 04:23:32
 
I find that, for mild bruising, increasing my intake of vitamin K (through food or supplements) and vitamin C daily (500 mg. Ester C, twice a day) helps.  I love leafy green veg, so it's easy for me to add them.  I'm not saying that will work for more than a mild problem.  In my case only, I think it's heparin, and mast cell stabilizers are the best help.

I've read some articles about increased scarring, and mast cells are definitely involved.  After a hand surgery, and once the wound healed over, I used a product called ScarGuard, and the doctor was surprised how well the would healed.  I don't know if that was the reason or if it was the prednisone I took before and after the surgery or something else.

Wendy,  I hope you feel well enough sometime soon to see Dr. G or Dr. A.  Too bad the doc in SLC didn't turn out to be a real specialist.  There's just no one in this region who's an expert.  When the only knowledgeable hematologist in Denver passed away, he was replaced with someone who doesn't know anything about it.  There are a couple of allergists in Denver who are knowledgeable about certain aspects, but they're not hematologists.  Frustrating!
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Joan
 
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #7 - 06/16/12 at 04:49:22
 
Joan... you just threw a light switch on in my head!

Remember how I was having all kinds of problems with bruising, petechiae, irregular bleeding, etc... a while ago?  In the fall I got hooked up with a person who grows organic, heirloom greens, so I've been getting a regular, weekly supply.  (She was able to keep growing all winter, thanks to the mild weather).  And guess what... the bleeding is greatly improved!

Yay!!!  Another thing I can add to my "bag of tricks." Smiley  (Why didn't I think of this sooner?)

Heather
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Joan
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Re: lots of bruising
Reply #8 - 06/16/12 at 07:59:27
 
Yay!!!!!!!! Smiley  I've made connections from people's posts on this forum, too.  Love it when that happens.

I just saw an article that said masto patients can have trouble absorbing enough vitamin K.

Here's my favorite recipe for kale, and I prefer the Italian kale (also called Lacinato or Dinosaur kale) or rainbow swiss chard, but any greens will do.    

Put greens into well-salted, boiling water until just tender.  Save some of the cooking water.  Shock greens in ice water.  When cool, squeeze out excess water, chop coarsely, s&p to taste, and mix in good olive oil so the greens are shiny, but not too oily.  Sprinkle just a little cooking water over sliced, crusty Italian toasts and put greens on the toast.  If you can eat it, shave some parmesan or pecorino romano cheese over the top.  (I do better with pecorino.)

Supposedly vitamin C strengthens the walls of the arteries and veins and keeps them from leaking or tearing as easily.
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Joan
 
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